When I first started blogging about Scarehouse Scott’s issues with Yelp, I felt very empathetic toward his situation. As it continues, I have been grabbed by the same sense of frustration he has. Today, he did manage to get a response from someone at Yelp. But, as you will see, it is a generic formulated response that actually does not address any of his specific issues. He isn’t fooled. I am not fooled. And no one is going to fool any of you readers. This is absolutely ridiculous.
Scott sent an e-mail that was pretty much what you read in the first Yelp post. Here is the response he received. My comments will be in red.
Hi Scott –
First and foremost, thank you for your note and the opportunity to connect with you!
I’m pretty sure Scott wasn’t just sending a “note” like, hey how ya doin’? And- opportunity to connect? She should be offering to address his concerns right up front.
I did want to touch upon your thoughts on seasonal businesses. That’s actually something that has come up here at Yelp before (ice cream trucks, lobster stands, etc) and how we can better help those businesses needs. Your points are duly noted and I’ll share with our product team.
If this has come up before, then they had a responsibility to address those points, not offer to share them with the product team. (Product team?- seems the wrong place to send this particular complaint)
I wanted to make sure you realize why we have a review filter in place and while we can’t disclose exactly how it works, some of the things it does and does not take into consideration. As outlined in this post <http://officialblog.yelp.com/2010/03/yelp-review-filter-explained.html> , our filter is automated. It looks at objective data rather than subjective measures (like how well written a review might be; star rating, etc) to try and show users the most useful information possible. Reviews that reflect perfectly legitimate experiences are sometimes filtered out by the review filter’s algorithmic processes — and we’re the first to agree that this can be frustrating, but it’s the high cost we accept to avoid being a lassez-faire review site that people stop using <http://www.google.com/trends?q=citysearch,+yelp,+yellowpages&geo=usa&sa=N> . Everyone loses when that happens.
So, if someone comes to your business and loves what you do but are not articulate, they shouldn’t bother going to Yelp to do a review. It would be a waste of time since it is just going to get filtered out anyway. Who wins there?
And, in case Yelp is going to act like they never saw this blog (I included their @ with the post links), we already watched the video that explains the filtering process/algorithm and realize a whole lot about it that is wrong. I linked that in the first post trying to be fair to Yelp. (I’m over that now) Yelp, please don’t treat the Scarehouse owner or the 178 people who have read these posts in the last 22.5 hours like they are morons.
Finally, in terms of engaging with yelpers: I think you’ve already done a great job unlocking your Yelp page, providing information about yourself and taking advantage of the tools. In case you haven’t seen it already, we have a blog post here <http://officialblog.yelp.com/2011/03/tactics-for-responding-to-online-critics-new-york-times-boss-blog.html> that outlines best practices to responding to reviews, but in past experience, I would encourage you to address the facts that might be inaccurate as it’s not just previous customers that are coming to your site, but future ones, as well. Yelpers look at your response just as much — if not more so — than the reviews.
Agreed, Scott did an excellent job of trying to work within the framework of Yelp and use their tools. Unfortunately, the tools he wants Yelp to provide- like positive reviews that aren’t filtered based on some secret, or negative review loving, formula (and yes, if you actually are being honest at Yelp, it’s like SEO– if you told us exactly how it worked people would abuse the system, we get it)- aren’t working well on their end. What good is a Yelp blog about responding to reviews going to do for business when they keep filtering out the reviews.
If I can answer any other Qs, I’m happy to try and help.
Seriously, let’s try answering Scott’s questions directly in the first place before we offer to answer any new ones. All this kind of response does is frustrate a person/business owner even more. I think finding a solution instead of copying links to information that offers no help for the situation would be a much better answer. Everyone invested in this issue gets the why and what of what you are doing. Most of us are really starting to think it is pretty shady.
What everyone wants to know now is HOW are you going to fix this problem and WHEN.
Scott is not the only person to have complained about the positive review filtering issue and my readers want to know what you plan to do. Cut the politics and spell out an exact answer.
Thanks!
Rachel
Emails like this are exactly the reason I started this blog.
I made a HUGE error in the Scarehouse Yelp #Fail original post about their problem with Yelp. Happens to the best of us. I did a ton of research once Scott gave me his story. But, it took talking with someone who always has a plethora of knowledge about all things online to find out that Yelp has been sued- for exactly Scott’s issue. And I don’t mean just once. There are so many links if you google Yelp getting sued/suing Yelp that I can’t understand how they haven’t been shut down yet.
By the way- the tweet that said they never ask for money in return for reviews? Makes so much sense now that I’ve read they have been accused of running an “Extortion scheme.”
I nailed it on the head when I said they seem to support negative reviews. That fact was verified by my source as something they have heard as well. I’m going to share some of the allegations with you.
But before I do that, listen to me.
DO NOT TAKE MY SUGGESTION TO GO ON YELP TO GIVE SCAREHOUSE REVIEWS! INSTEAD- I’D RUN SCREAMING FROM YELP AND STAY AWAY FROM THEIR SITE. Don’t even click on the links to Yelp information to give them any more attention. Consider this a bad review for Yelp. (Using my own algorithmic search-based strategy and previous testimonial.)
Just look at some of these:
From TechCrunch: Lawyer firm sues Yelp in class action suit- California
From East Bay Express: “Yelp sued in court for an alleged of scheme of using customer reviews to make money”
From NYTimes: suit claims that Yelp’s employees “call businesses demanding monthly payments, in the guise of ‘advertising contracts,’ in exchange for removing or modifying negative reviews appearing on the Web site.”
From Yelp themselves: Sued in Las Vegas. Must read the comments to really get a feel for what might be going on here.
From The Wall Street Journal: (Using the Yelp Tagline) “Real People. Real Reviews. Real Extortion Scheme?“
There are more links to be found if you are interested in doing your own search.
[update: 9/28- They're still at it. Scott shared that a total of 6 positive reviews have been filtered (removed)]
My impression is that if you are using Yelp as your main source of information on where to go for anything, you aren’t getting a very accurate picture.
For our friend Scarehouse Scott, I’m no longer suggesting we use Yelp to promote or review anything about the Haunt. If you feel like giving him a shout out, one way or the other, you are more than welcome to do it RIGHT HERE. I’m sure the people who work hard all year long to get “one of America’s scariest Halloween attractions” together would love to see your comments.
For many people the Scarehouse in Etna is associated with the scariest night you’ll have any Halloween season. Oh, and with an evil bunny whose picture haunts this blogger all the way til Easter’s over.
When @ScarehouseScott tweeted this morning that his glowing reviews on the Yelp site for this season were filtered out, leaving only a negative one, I was stymied.
If you aren’t aware of what Yelp does, it appears pretty cool in the description. From their site (with minor editing for space issues)
- Yelp is an online urban city guide that helps people find cool places to eat, shop, drink, relax and play, based on the informed opinions of a vibrant and active community of locals in the know. Yelp is the fun and easy way to find, review and talk about what’s great — and not so great — in your world.
- Is Yelp free? Yes! Other than some of our advertising features, you can use the site for free.
- You’ll find a wide range of people on Yelp, including locals who are “in the know” about what’s cool and happening in their city, visitors who want to get an insider’s local perspective, and anyone trying to find a great local business.
But what “Scarehouse Scott” is feeling today is a little more of the literal definition- Yelp- noun: A short sharp cry, esp. of pain or alarm. And not the good, haunted kind.
Why?
It’s best if I let him tell you. The story, in his words:
So, The ScareHouse is a professional haunted attraction owned, operated, and financed by myself, my wife, and my dad. I actually met my wife while working at a volunteer haunted house fundraiser for charity more than 20 years ago.
It has grown from a modest small business into a very large production, with 150 employees (primarily seasonal) – and very elaborate sets and special effects. You can see our website here: www.scarehouse.com.
It is our “day job” now. The ScareHouse is our year-round job, and our primary source of income. We start design work in January and construction in February. It’s a very expensive production that requires significant expenses for 12 months of the year on rent, payroll, promotion, and the actual production … And yet we have less than 30 days to earn our annual income.
Every year our audience has grown, and we’ve been blessed with repeat attendance – not to mention great results on the multiple surveys and exit polls we do. I’m also a huge proponent of social media, particularly when it is utilized as a form or customer service and feedback, and make a point to respond to all emails and facebook messages and posts.
This is why our YELP situation is so frustrating. We make it a point to respond to all negative reviews, even the ones that seem suspect – or the ones that quite possibly originate from our competitors. Ie “this place is hurting other haunted houses, you should go to (blank) instead”
Last year, on 9/28/10, a negative review appeared on Yelp from Evan M. appeared on our page. I think much of his post was done for comic effect, but it still was filled with inaccuracies. The most damning of which is his claim that the experience last just 4 minutes. Our attraction is in a 14,000 square foot building with a minimum of 65 actors — and the average “walk through” time is about 25 minutes.
On June 23rd, I responded to his post publically, commenting on the multiple errors and generally trying to stay positive. He messaged me privately saying that he refused to change anything.
This was when I noticed that a positive review on 10/1/2010 – posted just one week after the negative review – was mysteriously “flagged.”
I commented on this shady phenomenon online in late June. 4 more reviews were posted. Three of which were flagged for violating terms of service (two from people tangentially connected to our haunt, another from Evan further slamming us) – and the 4th, yet another positive from someone I don’t know, was also filtered.
Sunday night, a popular blogger from New Jersey posted a glowing review of our attraction – http://www.onezumiverse.com/2011/09/2011-review-pittsburghs-scarehouse-has-been-maligned-by-yelp-com/ – in which she not only gave us rave reviews, but mentioned that the only reason she didn’t visit us last year was because of the negative YELP reviews.
I posted this review to our fanpage and my Twitter feed. That post, along with the fact that we just opened for our 2011 season last weekend, prompted 3 new and positive reviews yesterday.
Just in case, I took a screencap . On 9/26 we received two 5 star and one 4 star reviews.
This morning? FILTERED!
Blogger added this screenshot for you to see.
Note: "One review for Scarehouse"
I (Scott) posted about this on Twitter and at least for now, there is one more positive review currently on our Yelp profile from Brad B (who I do not know) – http://www.yelp.com/biz/the-scarehouse-etna … Will it still be there tomorrow? Who knows…
I rant about this not because I have a fragile ego or because I don’t expect to receive the occasional negative review, but because the system is so clearly not telling an accurate portrayal of our experience. Customers are avoiding our business (which is only open for less than 30 days) based on a negative and inaccurate review, and most likely not even aware of the multiple and unsolicited positive reviews that have been posted.
And, as other businesses have said, good luck trying to find anyway to reach a human being through Yelp. There are no phone numbers or email addresses listed anywhere.
Scott Simmons
The ScareHouse
“Pittsburgh’s Ultimate Haunted House”
www.scarehouse.com
(412) 302-7999
Scott@scarehouse.com
twitter: @ScareHouseScott
//
Now, at the time Scott was sharing his Yelp #Fail on Twitter, I replied to him and included @Yelp ‘s handle, hoping we could get a real person to respond. They did at least respond and send a link that explains filtering on their site. I get it. But, I’m still not cutting them a complete break, although I give them some credit for not making it a complete fail. Responding in some way to your users problems is a start. Finding a way to correct it would be even better.
Here’s the actual tweet from @Yelp
@mcb1219 @ScareHouseScott More on why we have a Review Filter here: http://bit.ly/cwxirB Suffice it to say, there’s no amount of $ you can pay us to manipulate reviews: http://bit.ly/rBp21
(Blogger would like to clarify, no one offered them money from our end to manipulate anything- not sure what that has to do with Scarehouse’s issue.)
So, since they responded, let’s use this as a motivating factor to fix whatever bugs are in that fancy algorithm they created. Could it be that since The Scarehouse operates on a short term basis and its reviews spike during an 8 week or so period, that Yelp’s filter caught that as some kind of bot or personal association in their filter? I don’t know, just guessing. But, I’d hate to see any good business lose business because of a site that is obviously passionate about showcasing the best places to visit not, well…showcasing the best because their review filter process is flawed.
Now, Scott and I communicated about the response from Yelp after they tweeted it and he is very logical. On the subject of review sites, he told me via email, “you have to work with the systems they create.“
Not being sure that Yelp will give a gosh darn about this issue, I suggest working within the framework they provide to resolve the problem.
Here are a couple suggestions: NOTE: I have since rescinded this- see post #2 about this
If you are a blogger with no ties to the Scarehouse and have visited, consider linking this post in your upcoming Halloween themed posts and asking your readers if they will go to Yelp and rate a review after visiting the Scarehouse. If you are reading this and have been to the Scarehouse consider doing the same. But be honest. Only review if you’ve been.
And Yelp? How about some help? You talk in your filtering video about how we trust our family and friends to make recommendations on doctors, restaurants, mechanics, etc. But then, you leave good businesses to the mercy of strangers (which can be mostly good), who may have ill intent because they aren’t connected to the business and you have created a filtering process that seems to be pro-negative, based at least on the facts of this particular instance.
Has anyone else had problems/issues with Yelp reviews? Can anyone offer suggestions for dealing wit and resolving them?
And Yelp- A video is worth a thousand reviews.
Just so you know, I posted the Verizon Fail story on Twitter with @VerizonWireless and to mine, Stacie’s and Verizons FB pages. Typical of big business and Verizon in general, they chose not to respond. At all. Not even to clarify why they think they are right.
It just bugs me that when Stacie was in Texas and called for assistance, the first woman she spoke to made it sound as if bringing their phones into a VZW store in Texas once they moved would solve the problem. Even though that rep had to know Texas has the whitest area of “coverage” and that they were not going to be able to provide service.
Further updates when anything new happens.
Anyone with suggestions on handling problems with VErizon or other wireless companies in regards to a situation like this, feel free to help us out.
And if nothing else, Stacie has taught us all that if your Wireless carrier is important to you and/or you are in the middle of your contract, you should probably check your coverage area first.
This story comes to me from Stacie. Verizon: This is definitely not the most fair way to deal with a customer who has sung your praises for almost a decade and would do anything to have full bars in her new home. Here’s her story, in her words (with minor editing).
The next day, Amanda calls me back and apologizes for my trouble, but stands her ground that I will have to pay the ETFs of $895.00, but what she will do is turn my phones off on the 19th(Sept) between 7:30pm and 10:00 pm (great… NO CELL PHONE SERVICE FOR DAYS!!!) because this is the last day in my billing cycle. My last bill will only reflect the $895.00 ETFs.
I said, “Really? There is nothing you can do since your company does not offer the service that I clearly DO NOT want to cancel. You can not even cut the fees in half?”
“No, Mrs. (removed), we can not. It is policy.”
Well, what am I to do? She did, however, say she will note my account and on the 14th of October- when my bill is due- if I can not pay the $895.00 in full, then on the 26th-when it will be considered late- call the financial department and set up payment arrangements on the balance.
That is what the Cell phone company that I loved and promoted and did not want to end my contract with is doing for me.
Allowing me to pay them $895.00 becuase they do not offer service where I am moving to! Hats off to BIG RED GO VZW. Luv ya!!! NOT!
//
Anyone have any advice for Stacie and her plight with Verizon? Because I think Verizon had a major fail with a loyal customer who was only cancelling a contract because Verizon couldn’t provide what her phones needed from them- service. That isn’t Stacie’s fault. And this is a family that loved Verizon so much, that I bet had a tower gone up anytime between now and eternity, they would have gladly came back to Verizon.
Feels good to win. I finally received the refund for the Lenovo laptop that the company was unable to produce. If you’ve read the 1st two installments of this saga, you know that I waited for a laptop that was so delayed in it shipping that Lenovo jumped at the chance to cancel my order.
To continue where we left off, on the 6th of June I posted this blog. I linked the post to @Lenovo in a tweet. It got their attention and within a few hours they had read it and posted a comment.
They mailed a check which I had on the 12thand I am done with them. From their comment you can see they really want to sound like they did such a good job getting that refund out. But the only reason they did is because I made my story public. No praise for doing what you should have done in the first place without me begging.
But thanks to the one employee that finally did keep on it and resolve the issue. To his credit, he did have the check over-nighted to me.
In the end, be vigilant and don’t let things go- otherwise you might end up pressing one for no options.
So, let’s update shall we?
On May 12th I sent this email to my rep at Lenovo (some info deleted)
I am starting to regret my decision to order a Lenovo. I realize that by paying with a check, I caused a delay of 7-10 days. However, the payment was received and processed at the 2nd week(4/11) of April. I was finally given a ship date of 5/16 somewhere in the last week of April and only after emailing you to prompt that information which you confirmed on 4/26. Then, I checked on the order status today and the ship date has been moved to 5/25. This is completely unacceptable to me. I guess I should have known that if a deal looks to good to be true, it always is.
At this point, I wish I had just gone to a computer store like normal people and walked out with a laptop that was ready to go, or ordered from another company that has a faster ship time history. I hope this is not an indication of customer service issues and delays with assistance in my future dealings with this company. I assumed that because I was ordering a professional quality laptop, I would get professional quality service. This type of delay is frustrating and just plain irritating.
If there was an issue with the laptop/order/processing etc, wouldn’t it be a courtesy to inform your customers of the reason for the change/delay/problem? Most people respond better to problems when they are made aware of issues up front. I should not have had to find out just because I happened to go check the order status today.
I don’t know what you can do on your end about this issue, but I would appreciate your passing this email on to anyone that fields complaints about your products. I can tell you that I will never recommend that anyone buy a Lenovo and will be looking the company up on twitter and facebook to express my displeasure.
I did not get an email to this, so I called on 5/16 and said that I was upset by the lack of communication and was considering canceling the order if I did not hear back from them soon. There was no return phone call but…
On 5/18 I received this response from said contact:
I do apologize for my late response. After receiving this email I have been trying to research what is causing the delay. I will have to get a manager involved at this point. I will discuss with them and provide you an answer on how we can cancel the order and refund your money.
Now, mind you, I did not say I was canceling. Just that I wished I had gone out to buy one of the shelf and was considering it. They jumped at the chance to cancel the order.
Later that day, without any response to the above email, I received this request:
What address should we use to mail you the refund?
We will be submitting the request to cancel today.
To which I responded later on 5/18
That’s it? No apology? No answer as to what caused the delay? It’s a shame, because this was the exact laptop I was looking for and was so excited when I ordered it. No one ever responded on Twitter either when I included @Lenovo in my tweet, but I saw that other people were catered to and told that their delay would be looked into. No response to the link to my blog post that went up about it, either. It appears as if customer service at Lenovo has some issues to work out. I hope your tech assistance dept isn’t run the same way.
I also think it is odd that you only responded to my email after I left you a voice mail yesterday- just giving you an fyi about the kinds of things that make people not want to deal with companies. And all this after someone who used to work at a major university and dealt significantly with your company said how wonderful the Lenovo company is and how pleased I would be with the laptop.
I have to wonder why a company would run a huge sales promotion and then not be able to deliver the product. I can only imagine that since you are so willing to refund the money, you must not actually have the laptops you sold to ship out.
It’s disappointing to see this kind of business practices.
Before you send out the refund, please confirm that it will be for the total amount paid via my check to you.
And his response on 5/18 was:
I do apologize for the way this turned out. The extended lead time on this product is not usual but we are facing some difficult issues with parts coming from Japan. I also apologize for my late response to your email. I ensure you I was not by any means avoiding you but simply waiting for more information on what was causing the delay in your order.
The amount that will be refunded is (the amount I paid) before tax.
I will keep you posted on the request to cancel the order.
After this I asked for confirmation of the refund being sent. A week went by. Then I started to get more irritated. –>5/26 I sent:
I respectfully requested confirmation of my refund for the canceled order one week ago, in the same courtesy that I extended at your request when I mailed my check for payment. I have not heard back from you yet. I have only received confirmation that the order was canceled. It did not provide details of the processing time for the refund.
I waited almost 6 weeks for a laptop that you were unable to produce before the canceling of the order. I need verification that the check for the refund has been mailed to me at my home address, which I provided to you prior to the cancellation of the order. I do not expect to have to wait for an extended period to receive my money back. If you are unable to verify the refund, I request that you at least confirm receipt of this email. If you are “waiting for more information,” I request that you email me to communicate that fact.
Thank you for your time,
Melissa
5/30, I finally hear back from him:
I will look into this and see what information I can provide.
Seriously, that’s it. One line. I thought that is what he was already doing????
Then On 6/2 he sends this doozie:
Melissa,
I have not heard from my accounts receivable team in regards to the status of the refund. Can you advise me if you have received the refund?
Really? Really? No words describe the irritation at the fact that he is asking me if I have my refund yet. They are computer people for goodness sake. You mean they don’t have some great interoffice communication on their own Lenovo computers?
So I tell him on 6/2 in reply: I have not received the refund.
That’s it. Because at this point if I say any more, I may get picked up for making threats.
And then, no word. So today, 6/6, I am beyond frustration. I am beyond being ticked off. I want my money so that I can go out and buy a new laptop from Best Buy:
I still have not received the refund. Do you have any information on my check yet? If not, be advised that I am contacting the BBB tomorrow afternoon.
Melissa
And, wonder of wonders I receive an email response from my guy in 28 minutes. I am not kidding. NO real answer yet. Here’s the best the guy can do:
I have checked again and will have an update for you tomorrow morning. I apologize for the delay.
Regards,
What’s a girl to do? I’m about ready to go ape***t on this company. Hope the BBB can help.
